WASHPOST: Dems’ Claims that Tax Cuts Only Benefit Wealthy is a Lie

(Daily Caller News Foundation) The Washington Post soundly debunked the claim, made by numerous Democratic lawmakers, that the GOP tax reform bill will result in a tax increase for middle class households, the newspaper published in a fact check Thursday.

Washington Post Attempts to Delegitimize Heritage's Daily Signal

Photo by clasesdeperiodismo

A number of prominent Democratic lawmakers have publicly claimed the tax reform bill, scheduled to be released Thursday, will result in an average tax increase of $794 for households making up to $86,100 annually. WaPo fact checkers traced the claim back to a report produced by Democrats on the Joint Economic Committee, that predicts that some 8 million households making less than 86,100 per year will see their taxes increased.

“If enacted, the Republican tax reform proposal would saddle 8 million households that earn up to $86,100 with an average tax increase of $794—a substantial expense for working families,” the report reads.

PREVIOUSLY: Democrat House Member Pushes for Wealth-Creating Tax Reform

The Democratic lawmakers, including Sens. Kamala Harris of California, Robert Casey of Pennsylvania and Jeff Merkley of Oregon, falsely asserted the increase will apply on average to middle class families omitting the key detail that the increase will in fact be confined to “8 million households.”

The distinction is important as 8 million households represent just 6.5% of the nearly 122 million households in the bottom three income quintiles. Roughly 80 percent (97 million) of households in the bottom three quintiles will receive a tax cut, according to the report from which the false claim originated. Additionally, every quintile on average receives a tax cut.

While the most substantial average tax cut will go to the top quintile, that group also contains the largest percentage of households (32.3) that see a tax increase.

The fact check concludes with a harsh condemnation of the lawmakers who disseminated the demonstrably false talking point.

“In their haste to condemn the GOP tax plan, Democrats have spread far and wide the false claim that families making less than $86,100 on average will face a hefty tax hike,” the fact check reads. “Actually, it’s the opposite. Most families in that income range would get a tax cut. Any Democrat who spread this claim should delete their tweets and make clear they were in error.”

Republished with permission from Daily Caller News Foundation via iCopyright license.

  • Lmcyber

    Anyway you look at it, this is a significant increase on lower, working and middle class households. This tax bill will actually encourage companies to continue outsourcing jobs and will go further and encourage companies to now outsource their entire operations overseas. This is strictly a bill for the very wealthy and only multinational corporations at the expense of working families!

    • Erik V Johnson

      So What Your Saying is…Someone Who Makes…oh say…$14,000 Is Going to Be Subject to the MAX of $794 ALSO…give me a break

      • Lmcyber

        Based on their tax rates, someone who is making 14,000, and takes the standard deduction of $12K, will pay 15% of $2000, which is $300. Where are you getting this number $794?

        • Ron Boule

          Why don’t we let people decide which tax system they will use for the first year and let the IRS keep tabs on which one the people use. Then for years two and beyond the system that the people used the most becomes the law of the land.

    • Danno42

      You sound like Schumer. The broken record of “tax break for the wealthy”. This lie has gotten very old. What the Dems are scared of is that the economy will take off and we’ll get a job increase. Then their tired rhetoric will have less and less meaning to people like you

      • Lmcyber

        Honestly, listen! We have a 4.1 unemployment rate currently. We are at FULL UNEMPLOYMENT. We have 60 million jobs that are going unfilled because we don’t have the people! What we need in NOT jobs. We need higher WAGES! This tax bill is not going to help that. On top of it this bill will not let employers deduct health insurance costs. Guess what they are going to do?! They are going to decrease people’s health coverage or do away with it altogether. There is now no incentive to pay for people’s health insurance! All you people have to do is read the bill and apply it to yourself. You don’t need an accountant anymore because they took away all the deductions. You my friend, along with the rest of the country are getting royally screwed, while the wealthy are laughing at you and running to the bank with YOUR MONEY!!!!

        Don’t believe me! Read the bill!

        • Bernie

          Cyber (phony),
          Simple…pay your employees more. What’s stopping you?

    • slk5

      why do they always call you a dem, when you’re actually a liberal socialist sheeple…i just bought you a one way to neptune, have a happy flight!!!

      • Lmcyber

        What would you think of this legislation if the Dems had wrote it? Stop looking at this from a political view. Read the bill and apply it to your family and friends. See what happens. It’s a screw job and you are refusing to even consider it. Go talk to a cpa friend. Ask him. Educate yourself then come back!

        • Bernie

          Cyber,
          Face it. You’re a phony!

        • slk5

          the liberal socialists don’t want tax cuts, otherwise they would’ve done it when they “controlled” congress…so many things you whine about, that you could’ve easily taken care of…liberal socialist fear mongering will only work on you and your comrades!!!

          • Lmcyber

            No the Dems had 2 years they were in charge and they were quite busy saving this economy from the worst recession we had which was caused by republican policies the likes of what is happening right now with the trump administration. They also spent their time trying to improve our healthcare system or saving our consumers with Consumer Protection Board. And Obama did decrease middle class taxes on more than one occasion. Dems don’t believe in giving massive tax cuts to the wealthy on the backs of the lower and middle class!

          • slk5

            thats funny, saving the economy…hate to see what would happen if they trashed the economy, hey thats what they did do…still waiting for affordable healthcare, and surely wish i could’ve kept my doctor…and finally liberal socialists don’t believe in tax cuts, just how much more they can milk the taxpayer!!!

          • Lmcyber

            Liberals believe in tax cuts for the masses, the poor, the lower class, working class and middle class. As far as liberals are concerned they would love to give all this money than republicans are giving to the ultra wealthy, directly to the people in a check every year, no strings attached. Liberals know that 80% of our economy is all about consumerism. If we don’t buy GDP goes nowhere. Knowing that, liberals believe the money should go directly into the hands of those who will spend their money in the country every single day of the year. And that would be regular Americans. That is what liberals believe!

          • slk5

            8 years and you did crap, again you had 2 years that you could’ve done anything, and the only thing you could think of is piling on to the debt, and no tax cuts…liberal socialist mantra #4- tell them anything, but stick to your agenda!!!

          • Lmcyber

            That is a very disingenuous comment!!

            Do you ever bother to read before you comment? Who was in charge of Congress for the last 6 years in both House and the Senate? Republicans! Yes republicans!

            Second We all know Obama inherited an economy losing 750k jobs per month, unprecedented foreclosures and bankruptcies, bank and auto industry in the ditch, ALL Americans had lost 40% of their wealth, the highest unemployment rate in years, lowest record on stock market, etc, people are stupid as you assume people are.

            Look at the economy Obama handed over to trump and a government ran completely by republicans. After almost a year, they haven’t accomplished a thing legislatively even with the healthy economy they inherited. Your comment was very comical to say the least. You attack without bothering to do the intellectual hard work that goes behind an educated comment.

            I’m done – Peace out!

          • slk5

            That is a very disingenuous comment!! do you ever read before you comment, yes congress was controlled by the gop, and they did send tax cuts that were rejected by your liberal socialist party and president, and second, as of 1/3/07 was the day liberals socialists took control of congress!!! the d
            jones closed at 12,621.77, the gdp for the previous qt, was 3.5%, the unempl.
            rate was 4.6%, a record of 52 straight months of job growth(hardly any
            part-timers)!!! 1/3/07 was the day barney frank took over the house financial
            services committee and chris dodd (together known as the dodd frank circus),
            took over the senate banking committee!!! the economic
            meltdown that happened 15 months later, was in what part of the
            economy???…BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!!! the national debt is now over 19 trillion!!! barry has added more to the debt, then all before him
            combined!!! look at the economy that is thriving and finally showing life after 8 dead years, despite no legislation , you accidentally on purpose, forget that just doinging away with hundreds of barry’s regulations, has given new vigor to the economy…your blind attacks that professor indoctrinated you in are baseless and dumb!!! for someone that throws around big words, you are rather stupid, and not the brightest bulb in your dark basement…maybe ask mom to turn on the lights!!! put the pieces of your head back together before it’s to late!!! and one more thing, didn’t support or like any of the bush’s or liberal socialist presidents including carter!!!

          • Lmcyber

            There is NO facts to any of your comment. Anyone can get on and throw trash down, which most of your comment was full of. Let’s get some facts on the table.

            Dodd-Frank was passed July 21, 2010. The economic Banking meltdown happened under Bush and republicans in the fall of 2007 and their response was TARP.

            Secondly, Obama passed many tax cuts for small businesses and the middle class. Remember, nobody who makes over $250k would get a tax cut?
            Facts:
            “As part of the stimulus, formally known as the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, single workers collected a $400 tax credit, and working couples got $800.”
            “The Making Work Pay tax credit that was part of the economic stimulus of 2009 and a temporary reduction in Social Security payroll taxes that went into effect in 2011.”

            “Obama also has passed an array of tax cuts for small businesses.

            Eight of them were included in the stimulus, the Affordable Care Act (also known as the health care law), and the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment Act (also known as the HIRE Act). Among the cuts were the exclusion of up to 75 percent of capital gains on key small business investments; a tax credit for the cost of health insurance for small business employees and new tax credits for hiring Americans out of work for at least two months.”

            “Another eight cuts came via the Small Business Jobs Act, signed by Obama in September of 2010. These included: adding deductions for business cell phone use; creating a new deduction for health care costs for the self-employed; allowing greater deductions for business start-up expenses; eliminating taxes on all capital gains from key small business investments, and raising the small business expense limit to $500,000.”

            “Three months later, the president signed a tax bill that raised the expense limit to 100 percent of small business new investments until the end of 2011. It also extended the elimination of capital gains taxes for small business investments through the end of 2012.”

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/07/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/

            Okay, he did not give tax breaks to the wealthy. He gave MANY tax breaks to the middle class and small business.

            Lastly, Obama had the longest record of sustained job growth in the history of the US. Trump already went one month losing 33K jobs – last month.

            You need to read your comments before you post, as most of your comment was devoid of reality and facts, especially that statement about Dodd-Frank. Secondly, if you look at the stock market growth over the last 7 years, there was no trump bump. It has grown at the same pace as it has for the last 7 years.

            http://www.macrotrends.net/1358/dow-jones-industrial-average-last-10-years

            The rest of your comment was just BS insults and stupid statements about how you feel about socialists. The problem with that is there is no socialists in either party. I suggest that you research your facts before you write next time.

            Cya!

          • slk5

            can’t wait till all those atrocities are gone…and America can rise again!!!

          • Lmcyber

            You do realize that nothing of trumps screw ball ideas will get done except what he does with eo’s, and eo’s can be changed just as easy as he changed them. You see the US government cannot be changed in drastic ways. The government is not structured for drastic change and if they do happen to slip something by, the American people are very unforgiving. Case in point: Obamacare. Once drastic change gets by – they’re out, all of them.
            So that is why this tax bill probably will not get passed, just like healthcare didn’t!

          • slk5

            you do realize that things are soo much better, now that barry is out of the wh, as you do realize, that the liberal socialists have no incentives to make anything better…thats why everything they do and say is hate speech…we made it threw barry’s reign, and you and all the other cupcakes will make it threw trump reign!!!

          • Lmcyber

            I thought he is extremely divisive, and I do not think any of his policies will ultimately help the middle class on this country. I have lived long enough to see history repeating itself. I can pretty much predict how this will affect the good people in this country. And it is not good!

            Luckily, I don’t think he will finish his term. We just found out that it looks like Flynn and his son are also going to be indicted and then we will probably see Jared Kushner and then ultimately Donnie.

          • slk5

            first he won’t run, he’s not gonna win the primary, he’s not going to be even close to hilary, and ever since, this is the day he will be impeached…prefect streak, keep up the good work!!!

          • Lmcyber

            That made no sense!! You need to rewrite that.

            An added note. Republicans as you are should be completely supportive of any and all investigations that gets to the bottom of Russia attacking our democracy and electoral process. If Clinton were in trumps place I would hope that she would push this investigation to its full conclusion and I would be just as vocal if Clinton was trying to shut down this investigation. It’s not a partisan issue to me.

            Because Trump keeps trying to shut these investigations down and goes out of his way to obstruct it, well ….. it makes him look very guilty and you can’t blame the majority in this country who think the way I do and think that he could very well be guilty.

          • Lmcyber

            So Liberty did again, and censored my answer, which was just a list of all the tax cuts for middle class and small businesses that Obama passed. But getting down to this, your comment is devoid of truth. In fact, its bad, real bad.

            http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/sep/07/barack-obama/barack-obama-said-hes-cut-taxes-middle-class-famil/

            Since I can’t quote on this website….. By the way who runs this website. Does anyone know who is involved with Liberty Headlines which doesn’t have much revenue, I must admit.

            Anyway there was huge list of a multitude of tax cuts, 8 minimum for small businesses. Secondly, Dodd-Frank was passed in July of 2010. The banking meltdown happened at the end of the Bush and republican Congress administration in the fall of 2007. The republicans response to that was to pass TARP, major bailout for the banks. Banking meltdown was 2007 which Dodd-Frank was 2010.

            Third, Obama had the longest sustained job growth in the history of the US. Trump already lost jobs last month to the tune of 33k.

            Fourth, the stock market growth has shown NO trump bump. It is growing at the same pace it had for the last 7 years. No credit there for trump.

            Lastly, the rest of your comment is just emotional rubbish aimed at socialism. Problem is there is no socialism in either party. Far from it. You must be talking about Russia.

          • slk5

            aww cupcake, continue with your whining, again, and again and again, you could’ve done anything you wanted, and all you did was double the debt…you just want people to be dependent of big brother…patiently wait for more of your whining and jibberish!!!

  • Erik V Johnson

    If I Made $86,000…And CAN’T AFFORD a $794 in Additional Taxes…give me a break

    • Lmcyber

      Okay, here is the breakdown for $86k. You would now be in the 25% tax bracket, with a standard deduction of $12,000, which went up from $6350. This is assuming single vs married. You used to be allowed a deduction of $4050 for yourself and each of your dependents. You can no longer take off state and local taxes, medical expenses, tax preparation fees, alimony payments, student loan interest and moving expenses. Forget the mortgage interest deduction also as most people will use the standard deduction, on existing homes. Any new homes going forward, they will only let you write off up to $500k, not $1 million, like it is now. That state and local tax is a big deal in states that have higher taxes, but either way, no matter where you live you cannot deduct state and local taxes except if you own a corporation.

      Based on the above your tax bill is now $18,500. Now if you were going by the current rates, (before the House bill) depending on how much you owed in state and local taxes, how much you paid out in medical for the year, (which could be quite dramatic), the deduction or $4050, which for a family of 4 is $16K, property tax, etc. You could essentially write off, if you itemized a significant portion of your taxable income. There are no write offs with this new bill, and I most definitely do not believe it will be just an additional $794. That is nothing compared to what you will be paying, which of course depended on your current write offs….. Who knows, maybe you didn’t write anything off, but either way this was supposed to be a middle class tax cut, not a middle class tax raise.

      You tell me, will your tax bill be significantly higher or lower?

      http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/02/news/economy/house-tax-reform-bill-individuals/index.html

      • Jerry Mcmanus

        states like um, new jersey.

        • Lmcyber

          It doesn’t matter where you live! This is a massive rip off of the people, and you know it!

  • 27633171

    If this were the only LIE these people are telling, it would pale into insignificance. These people have perfected the art of lying into a science. Thankfully, their lies didn’t work in the last election and hopefully they won’t work in the future.

  • ray2hill

    It is absolutely true that about 18 families will have a little more chump change in their pockets in this “reform” legislation. It is also true that Trump’s rich friends will make out like bandits under its provisions. Lots of luck, suckers.

    • RealAmerican407

      “It is also true that Trump’s rich friends will make out like bandits”

      Man if I have ever heard a claim based on PURE conjecture this is it.

      Libs like you never understand that it is wealth that creates prosperity. Poor people don’t create prosperity because poor people don’t open up businesses that turn into mega corporations which hire hundreds of thousands of people and create products or services that people purchase. It’s easier to blame your woes on the “greedy rich” than try to understand basic macroeconomics.

      • Lmcyber

        you my friend do not understand any economics because everything you just said goes against it. Read the bill and objectively apply it to your family and friends and then look at the massive wealth giveaway to the very wealthy. I have read this screwjob of a bill. I have already talked to CPA’s. Have you??

        • RealAmerican407

          ” massive wealth giveaway to the very wealthy”

          Nowhere in the bill does it say that corporations will be receiving a check, you are just being hyperbolic.

          “everything you just said goes against it. “

          How so? You can’t just say something silly like that and not explain yourself. How exactly do poor people make other people successful? How exactly does driving out corporations because of ridiculous confiscatory taxes help our economy or employment numbers??

          “I have read this screwjob of a bill. I have already talked to CPA’s. Have you??”

          I have used numerous calculators and by all signs I will be taking home more money but then again I am not living in a high tax Democratic state like New York or California. Since the majority of America is not run by left wing lunatics such as in these states where illegal immigrants are housed in sanctuary cities and millions are spent on “green initiatives” we don’t have to worry about it.

          • Lmcyber

            What your tax bill is going to be depends on your use of deductions. If you typically have never had deductions and always taken the standard deduction and do not fall out of the the usual tax rate you have always been under then yes your bill might be the same or thereabouts. But that’s not going to be the case with everyone.such as an older couple who have medical expenses. Their bill will be considerably higher, or the young couple who haven’t bought their first home, or the young college kid who has large student loans. All these people will end up paying more not less. That’s just a few examples.

            As a corporation my rate was based on a 35% tax rate. But we know that corporations never paid that. They paid approximately an 18% rate. Now they are taking it down to 20% which means corporations will pay significantly less than 20%. In fact even at 35%, many corporations were never paying any taxes and actually getting money back, such as corps like GE. So my tax bill will be significantly les and I will be able to write off my state and local taxes, and I live in CA. The government still has to stay within budget. As it is they are still going to run up a deficit of 1.5 trillion probably more with this bill. Either way I will be able to not pay a considerable amount of taxes while others will have to make up that difference. They will be paying the higher taxes not me because I own a corporation. What am I going to do with that extra money? Invest it!

            The other issue you need to remember which is that 80% of GDP is consumer spending. If we find that many people will not in fact be saving money and in fact have less money then by logic, GDP will go down as people will be consuming. We are better off giving a much deeper tax cut to the ordinary guy out there because we know they will spend it in our economy. Wealthy people will just invest or give it to their shareholders.

          • Bernie

            Cyber (putz),
            Your corporation had a choice of not using all those loop holes, so stop lecturing.
            You’re nothing but all talk and a phony.

        • Bernie

          Cyber,
          Hmmmm, the bill was just made public yesterday and you already talked to your CPA.
          Got it, you phony!

          • Lmcyber

            Actually, I have 2 accountants and yes I have talked to both of them. One of even told me that every one of his clients will be hurt by this bill. In fact, he is having to send out a letter laying out his concerns and how it will affect all with this bill negatively.

            You really have an inferiority complex don’t you, with that phony criticism you are always throwing around. By the way, I don’t lie!! So, if I tell you something you can be assured I am telling the truth and I don’t ever find the need to make myself feel important by calling others names.

          • Bernie

            Yep…That right-wing rag, the Washington Post also called you and your two accountants “phony”.
            Keep trying, phony….

          • Lmcyber

            You know you’re a real jerk aren’t you? I read through your comments and you just like to harass people, and again that is due to a character defect. Personally, I don’t think you have anything to offer to the conversation but grief. Your knowledge base is very limited and funny how you think highly of yourself. I personally don’t think you have an value to add to any conversation. But you can keep it up, that is if you can anymore. In the meantime, blocked!

          • Bernie

            Better run to your “safe space”!
            Typical left-winger. Block those who you don’t agree with.
            Sad….

          • Bernie

            Just more empty rhetoric from a phony.
            By the way phony, it’s amazing you consider a few words “harrassing”.
            Just like the snowflakes on college campuses, you need your “safe space” to protect you from a few words,
            What a sad commentary!

          • Bernie

            “Truth” by your account.
            What a joke!

    • Red

      And you of course work for some poor individual, don’t you comrade?

  • RealAmerican407

    It’s pretty bad when even the ultra left leaning, Jeff Bezos owned, Wapo actually calls out Dems for their lies and hyperbole.

    • Mike E

      I mentioned that my wife and I paid 9% for the past 2 years as our tax rate. The next rate for next year is going to be 15% for us. We are both retired and have no other income. This is what I saw on an actual Republican’s web page. That will be a 6% tax rate increase? How will we be able to pay this and there will be millions of other retirees that will also find that same problem. Ideas would help?

      • lumbertiger

        Well, you will not be paying anything on an extea $12000, right, so probably these offset ynless you are in California or New York..

      • Lmcyber

        I agre people in your age category and on top of it you can no longer deduct your medical insurance costs or expenses. That will be a huge write off you will lose. I would suggest you get on the phone and call republican members of Congress and encourage them to not pass this bill!

        • RealAmerican407

          He loosely uses the word “millions”. In a country of over 300 million that is a very small percentage. Your only solution is to stick is to corporations more so that the economy goes even more into the toilet which effects everyone. Your only real argument against this is old people and medical bills and there is no data to support your claims that this will be across the board for all retirees.

          • Lmcyber

            RealAmerican, I think you need to know that corporations have been making tremendous profits in the last years. They have tremendous revenue on the books. They are doing better now than they have for many, many years. Knowing that, they are still NOT raising people’s salaries and wages. Giving them more tax cuts is not going to change anything. The money for those tax cuts are going to be invested overseas or given to stock holders. That is exactly what they are doing now.

            Why do I say that? 80% of our economy is a consumer based economy. If the people in this country do not have the revenue to consume, which they seem to now, but not to drive the GDP up to where these clowns in gov. want it to. So, if corporations are not raising wages now and if they are changing the taxes overseas to the same level they are in the U.S., where do you think they are going to invest with their operations? Overseas! You will find many companies will start to move not only parts of their labor force overseas, (outsourcing) but ultimately their entire operations. That is total BS.

            I am sorry, and I know many of you believe in trump, but this tax cut for the wealthy is not going to help any of us much, but it will greatly help the wealthy and corporations. I also wanted to add that we are now at 4.1% unemployment, which is considered full employment. There are currently 60 million jobs unfilled in the US because we don’t have the skilled labor force to fill them, and on top of it there is this big push to get rid of high tech immigrant workers, which will hurt our economy, and there is no mention from this administration about massive job skills training investment or an infrastructure program. Those two things would greatly benefit the labor force in the US. None of what they are doing with this tax bill is going to make much of a difference with any of our lives. A few bucks for some is not what we want. We want higher wages. We need job training programs, so we can land higher level jobs that pay more and we need an infrastructure program all over the US.

          • RealAmerican407

            “but this tax cut for the wealthy is not going to help any of us much, but it will greatly help the wealthy and corporations.”

            This is the claim you keep falling back on time and time again in all of your posts and is the genesis of your entire argument. It’s pure conjecture and you have nothing to support it. I have plugged my data into several calculators already and I will be taking home hundreds more each month. I only make $80k a year and am FAR from wealthy. Guess what? I now have more money in my pocket to spend in our economy and I won’t be sending a dime of it overseas.

            You are making extremely broad claims and mostly just making things up.

          • Lmcyber

            Read what economists say. There is absolutely no empirical data to support the that a trickle down effect has ever occurred in this country. Ever and we have had these massive tax cuts with Reagan, who later ended up raising taxes 9 times afterward because of the damage that was being done to the economy and deficit. Then came Bush 43 who ended up driving us into the worst recession since the Great Depression due to deregulation, tax breaks for the wealthy and 2 wars unpaid for put on a he credit card. We have plenty of empirical evidence that it DOESN’T work but no evidence that it does.

            As far as you getting a slight tax increase great! I said it depends on whether you itemize, and basically use the deductions they knocked out. I never said that normal people would be spending their money overseas. I said the ultra wealthy and corporations would. No different than they are doing now.

          • Lmcyber

            By the way, read what economists and independent assessments say which is 80% of the benefits will go to corporations and the upper 2% with this tax bill. If you are willing to study this tax bill and assessments you will find out on your own what will happen. But you have to be willing to spend the time and study it.

            I base all my statements on facts who have come from well known economists. And no I don’t just make it up. I have presented you with too many statistics and facts to just make it up. That’s a ridiculous statement.

      • RealAmerican407

        Just because you are retired tells me nothing about your age. Perhaps you just don’t feel like working and that is why you have no other income? How good are you with your money? There could be a hundred different reasons for the situation you are in that you can’t fairly blame on the impending tax reform. 45% of Americans in this country pay nothing in taxes. It’s a country of 320 million so “millions” is a very small percentage.

        • Lmcyber

          That was a terrible thing to say to that retired couple!! He said he has been on social security for some time! That means that are much older than 65! I guarantee you that not many people can live off the income they are having to live off and with significant medical expenses which they probably have at their age.

          • RealAmerican407

            You are on here spreading hysteria and unsupported facts. It’s no different than the Democratic hysteria about 20 million losing health insurance under the GOP plan without also telling us that well over 50% of them never wanted insurance to begin with.

            So don’t lecture me about being terrible.

          • Lmcyber

            I apologized! Second, I’m not the one who told you about 20 million. The CBO score did as well as the Kaiser Foundation and many other organizations. All I did was mention what those associations said. That is not spreading hysteria.

          • RealAmerican407

            “He said he has been on social security for some time!”

            Why are you lying? Clearly by reading his comment he does not say that anywhere at all.

          • Lmcyber

            I looked at his second post above, in which he laid it all out, and mentioned that his Social Security payments will be cut by 1/3. My apologies!

          • Criers

            Lmcynber, you are making a lot of assumptions.RealAmerican407..was asking questions and making statement. Nothing rude, unless you personally know this person, don’t read more into a post then what is there.

          • Lmcyber

            Fair enough!

          • Mike E

            Thank you Lmcyber. I am 71 and we live on Social Security. I had to go on Disability because of a serious fall onto my back and neck from 5 feet above our driveway, the fall was onto the cement and a steel pipe. I can only walk with a cane or walker and have no feeling in my lower legs or my left arm and hand. My disability insurance from work only paid 50% of my wages, taxable. I was on disability until 66 and then went on my Social Security and Medicare. I had a little insurance until I retired, then it was Medicare. My wife had to retire early to become my caregiver, she was 63 and never had a good paying job. I had serious medical issues and so did my wife. All within the last few years. I crushed my eyeball with a bungee cord the hook flew up and crushed my eyeball and broke my eye cup had to have major operation on it to save my eyeball. I had cataract surgery on both eyes. I had to get 2 hearing aids for deafness. My wife had appendicitis and it ruptured and the poison spread throughout her abdomen and the hospital operated to see what happened and she was full of pus and she developed extreme peritonitis and she went into Septicemia! She almost died because when I took her in and they ran tests,
            the appendices were still there. She had severe pain and the doctor said to take her home and bring her back the next day. I insisted she stay and the next day, they did the operation to see what was wrong. The appendices had ruptured on the opposite side and was still intact but open in back. She was full of fluid and they had some serious work to do in 6 hours. She had to stay in intensive care for 8 days and then they released her on the 9th day. She was off work for 8 weeks.

            So, the medical costs have been bad and non deductible. But these add up.

          • Criers

            You may want to look into AARP they have a list of resources that can help with medical bill payment.

          • Mike E

            Thank you Criers for your suggestions. I will look into these different resources. Great ideas and very much appreciated. Have a Blessed weekend.

          • Lmcyber

            Mike, I am very sorry to hear all the bad luck you and your wife have had. I wish you both the best of luck and hopefully things will change for you in the future!

          • Mike E

            Thank you Lmcyber. I appreciate this. I just wish that it were easier.

          • IrreverentOne

            Hey Mike. You might want to talk to a bankruptcy attorney.

      • frank shea

        GET A LITTLE MORE EDUCATION ON TAXATION!
        YOU ARE DRINKING THE SCHUMER KOOL-AID
        AND IT WILL GIVE YOU DIARRHEA!

        Read the entire proposal and review all the issues!
        DON’t LISTEN TO THE CRY-BABY.
        THE ULTRA LEFT MEDIA just gave Chuck Schumer
        (4) Pinocchios. Can you believe that?
        DON’t be FOOLED!

        • Lmcyber

          Frank that comment was extremely insensitive to a couple probably in their 70’s! They are telling you the truth about their specific situation and are asking for help and you acted like a jerk to him!!

          • Criers

            Lmcyber..you are acting like a jerk to Frank. When does it stop???

          • Lmcyber

            I apologized to Frank. I was just protecting Mike and his wife who are obviously going through difficult times.

          • frank shea

            Lmcyber,
            Please stay out of adult conversations!
            I am 75 years old and my wife is 71 years old!

            You young whipper snappers don’t speak our language.
            He knows what I mean without any disrespect!

            RESPECT YOUR ELDERS! HA! HA!

          • Lmcyber

            Frank I was told I was acting like a jerk to you, so I apologize.

          • Mike E

            Respect your Elders. That used to be what we did in my day. We also respected the stories that we heard from many old people, they were our living history. I have always loved history and used to listen to my grandparents and their friends when they would talk about “the good old days.” But what they forgot about the good old day was that, they had WWI, the Depression of 1929, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam War (I was in) and other wars. I’m 70 almost 71, my wife is 65 and we have lived in some amazing times. Each generation can say that, I expect.

        • Mike E

          Frank Shea. I’m not saying the tax law is bad, but I am saying that our tax goes from 9% to 15% and my wife and I are both on Social Security. I’m 71 and she is just 65.

          • frank shea

            Mike!
            I am 75 and my wife is 71!
            I am urging you to read the whole proposal and use
            a calculator!
            Have you taking a look at the
            Stock Market
            Unemployment
            GDP
            Consumer Confidence?
            We are on an economic tare!

            The last guy in office, Obama, was similar to the Old Goat Bernie Sanders. You want those policies then look at Venezuela!

          • Mike E

            Thanks Frank. You have been helpful and I appreciate it. I guess, I can’t just get the information that is on anyone’s page and get the correct information. I should go to the source. Thank you.

          • Kathryn Jordan

            What will it do for people who are disabled and are on Social Security Disability?

          • frank shea

            I don’t know!
            We will know after we read the proposed bill!

            I know Nancy Pelosi passes the bills to see what is in it!
            I would like to read the law before it is passed like most normal Americans!

            Remember the bill is designated to lower taxes and let Americans keep more of their money to spend at their own discretion!
            It might not do a thing for those citizens who do not pay
            ANY TAXES at all!
            You can’t reduce Zero???

          • Kathryn Jordan

            I’d like to read the law before it is passed as well. I know that the House version adds to the National debt. I wonder what the Senate’s tax bill looks like. Will both Houses of Congress be able to compromise on this new tax bill? And you are right; you can’t reduce zero.

          • heltonja

            A tax cut can’t add to the national debt. Only government spending can do that.

          • Kathryn Jordan

            The way the Republican controlled Congress wrote this so called tax reform will add to the national debt. The only people who will see a tax cut are corporations and the wealthy.

          • heltonja

            1. History has shown that significant tax cuts especially corporate tax cuts result in more economic activity which actually increases revenues to the federal government.

            2. It is spending that incurs debt so the Congress is always free to reduce spending so that it doesn’t exceed revenues.

          • Kathryn Jordan

            My reply from my own republican Congressman did not answer that question. All he told me was what it would do in helping a single person or a married couple. I guess I need to send him another email asking how is it going to affect those on Social Security Disability.

          • spoken01

            lol… do a real comparison……Venzuela?? really???? Dont drink your own Koolaid. The tax cut to us is only temporary from what I have heard so even if it is real then not much help really…

          • kathryn

            you are going to pay far less.
            New tax bracket after standard deduction for married couple 24 k
            along with your mortgage et…. You will be paying less

          • Mike E

            My wife and I bought our double wide in Fl. for cash, no mortgage, no interest. So, we will see how it pans out when the taxes are paid for 2018.

      • Criers

        Mike E were did you get these figures…because they seem to be false.

        • Mike E

          The figures for what we paid was from the H&R Block person we use each year. the 15% is from a chart on a Republican congressman’s web page or the Republican web page.

          • Criers

            I think you may have to look at the plan a little more. I’m making some assumptions because I have not read the entire plan yet and I don’t know your situation but it may be a 3% increase up to 12%. It also depends on your state taxes. If your state taxes are high you may want to move or vote in some people to lower taxes.

      • Eileen

        The standard deduction is doubled, which wipes out roughly half of Social Security income and the rest should be at 85%. This is assuming both spouses receive maximum benefit. Although I don’t doubt HR Block when they tell you your tax rate went up, that doesn’t mean that the total amount paid to the IRS went up – unless you live in a high tax state.

        • Lmcyber

          Actually what is going to wipe Frank out is the fact that you can no longer deduct medical expenses with this new legislation. He says he has a lot of medical bills and he currently is able to deduct those costs.
          That one issue is going to hurt a lot of small businesses as they pay a ton for medical insurance.

        • Mike E

          Eileen, thank you very much for your great suggestions. We will look into this and see what we can do to make things better. You have been allot of help. Bless you and yours and have a wonderful weekend.

        • Kathryn Jordan

          Eileen, what I am concerned about this tax bill are people who are disabled and are on Social Security Disability. I am one of those people who are disabled. What I don’t know is how is this going to affect my life. I know none of us really knows the ins and outs of this tax bill. Can’t wait to see if both Houses of Congress can come up with a compromise between both bills.

        • kathryn

          Nobody is taxed at 85 percent.

      • A_Nobody

        Mike, I’m the same age as you and know the left is just using scare tactics to impede. They do so to keep in an attempt to keep control, and do so by being pathological liars. My suggestion is to get off their sites for information.

        • Mike E

          A_Nobody. When I go to sights that are supposed to be right thinking and than I go to the ones that are left thinking, I get a different answer. The independent sites are like Joe Friday in Dragnet; “Just the facts….” will say that the final tax plan hasn’t been determined as of yet. I guess that it’s going to have to be a wait and see situation.
          Thanks for the imput.

  • Raymond Miller

    Yup, and the wealthy create jobs and hire the middle class and others to do the jobs they create. It’s better that we let the DC Elites have the money so they can stuff their pockets with our tax $’s ? Not in my mind. I have worked for the wealthy for years as a carpenter/contractor in my town and have no problem with them getting a tax break. The ones we should cut pay checks on or increase taxes on are the politicians.

    • Lmcyber

      How utterly misconstrued your comment is. Right now corporations and the wealthy own over 80% of our money, while 99% control or own less than 7%, and you want to give them more. What planet are you on? These people are going to take that money and stuff their pockets. That are going to invest it offshore and give it to their shareholders. They are NOT GOING TO TRICKLE IT DOWN TO YOU! There is NO empirical evidence to suggest that has ever happened.! Ever!!!

      • Jerry Mcmanus

        “the wealthy own over 80% of our money” its not “our money. its their money

        “give them more” – we are not “giving” we propose “not taking AS MUCH”

        you not being able to distinguish reatlity leads me to believe you are insane

        • Lmcyber

          This shows how unbelievably wrong you are on this. This is a redistribution of wealth upwards. They are going to tax you more, they are taking away your write offs but not taking away the wealthiest write offs. They are giving them all the breaks on rates and deductions and are taking away the individuals.

          Listen, I own a corporation. I’ll be able to take advantage of all the wealthiest tax breaks. I will be able to deduct the SALT taxes. I will benefit. But you won’t. You losing all those deductions will cause your taxes to go up, so that mine will go down.

          I am just pointing out how unfair this is to the lower and middle class. Regardless I am getting massive breaks on the backs of people like you.

          • Bernie

            Cyber,
            Are you admitting you’re cheating your employees of a “fair” wage?
            Why are you using those massive tax breaks?
            Why don’t you “spread the wealth” and pay your employees more? That way, YOU won’t have as much and your corporation will make less.
            Oh, and if YOUR taxes go down, you can always write an additional check made out to the IRS. I’m sure they’ll be more than happy to take it.
            You’re a big phony!!

          • Lmcyber

            I have ran 3-4 companies in my day and fairly paid my employees and provided benefits. After this last recession I cut back to very few of us. Had to. And I will never build up again to a larger nut. From here on in I plan on putting away and investing. I don’t trust that this administration is not going to run us into another recession. I believe we are in another bubble.

            That last recession damaged many a business trust me! Why do you not just ask without finding the need to call names?

          • Bernie

            Cyber,
            Because you are a phony!
            I started a business with only a $1,000 to my name. And, without any formal education, grew it well into 7 figures in sales…recession or not.
            Now a semi-retired, self made millionaire through common sense and investing.
            If a schmuck like me can do it, anyone can!
            You are so easy to make look foolish.

          • Lmcyber

            And you show a character defect with that last comment. I’m embarrassed for you, especially with that last statement.

      • Mike E

        Our Presidents whole cabinet, has more money than all of the rest of American’s? This was told to us by a Republican?

        • RealAmerican407

          So the wealth of his cabinet is evidence of what exactly? Does that somehow obligate them to supporting you no matter what your financial irresponsibilities or poor life choices may be?

          • Mike E

            I never said anything about anyone supporting me nor did I say that anything is wrong with the President filling his cabinet with the wealthiest American’s. I really don’t know where you are coming from but you seem to be very angry. Please reread my comments, I am not supporting or not supporting President Trump. An observation with nothing behind it, no sinister agenda at all.

          • RealAmerican407

            ” nor did I say that anything is wrong with the President filling his cabinet with the wealthiest American’s.”

            So you find nothing wrong with it yet you felt compelled to point it out? Surely you can see how nonsensical that sounds.

          • Mike E

            RealAmerican407. Nonsensical? Has everyone in these discussions always been sensible? I wanted some input from real people as to their feelings about the Presidents cabinet appointees? The reason I’ve asked this is that I know the DeVos and Prince family from some direct contacts that my sister had. She married a Lawyer, the son of the lawyer that was friends with Richard DeVos and Jay Van Andel. He did all of the legal work for them to create their Amway Corporation. He lived in Ada, just down the street from them, for many years. My two Stepbrothers, Jim and Larry Geuter were security for the DeVos’s at their new home on South Shore Drive, Holland, Mi. On Lake Macatawa. The DeVos home is about 1/4 of a mile east of my fathers home. My father and my stepmother knew the Prince family through the Country Club and the Holland Yacht Club. Betsy DeVos became the head of the Michigan Republican Party because of the huge donations that her families made to the Republican Party in Michigan and to Republican Politicians throughout the state.

            So, because of my knowledge of these families and the way that they created their political influence, this is why I am interested in finding out from other people, how they feel about many of the people that were chosen for the different cabinet positions in the government? Some of these people chosen for different positions, don’t have any knowledge as to how or what it takes to run the agencies that are appointed to. There was a statement in a movie, where a person was on trial for murder and the jury had retired to the deliberation room. The jury foremen made his speech and he asked the jury; I’ve got an 80 million dollar jet fighter that has to be flown into battle. I’ve got a brand new pilot who has never flown a jet fighter before and I have a jet fighter pilot who has had 20 missions to his record. Do I take the chance on the rookie who has never flown before? Or, do I choose the fighter pilot that has 20 successful missions under his belt? Who do I get to fly my brand new 80 million dollar fighter jet?

      • RealAmerican407

        This guy keeps throwing out Bernie Sanders type conjecture attacking the free market yet he has nothing to support it with. Go to Google and type in “Marketwatch 45% of Americans pay no taxes”. That article is based on actual data and shows that the TOP 20% pay 87% of all income taxes. America has the absolute highest confiscatory tax rates in the world.

        Just last year Wal-Mart closed 154 stores resulting in 10k jobs being cut. Johnson Controls/Tyco are moving to Ireland. Mondelez Intl (Oreo’s etc.) moved to Mexico. Carrier just announced they are moving to Mexico as well. Intel also slashed 12,000 jobs. Thousands of small businesses across the country wen out of business.

        • Lmcyber

          We are at 4.1% unemployment rate. That is considered full unemployment. There are currently 61 millions on unfilled jobs right now in the US, and we don’t have the people to fill them. Those are facts. We don’t need more jobs! We need higher wages and we need people retooled to be able to adapt to a new economy. We are no longer a manufacturing economy. We are a service economy which demands a different skill set out of their labor force. These are all facts?

          So they now change the tax structure completely in favor of the very very wealthy. I understand who pays the taxes and there is a reason why!! It’s because the upper 2% own and control 90% of the wealth in this country. Of course they are paying the bulk of all the taxes. And the reason half the country doesn’t pay taxes is because half the country doesn’t make enough to pay taxes. They have next to nothing and you can’t bleed blood out of a turnip as they say.

          • RealAmerican407

            “We are at 4.1% unemployment rate. That is considered full unemployment. ”

            A misleading statement. You purposely ignore the labor participation rate which is still at some of the lowest levels since the 1970s. The more people drop out of the work force, the lower the rate dips. That trickery doesn’t work on me pal.

            “We don’t need more jobs! We need higher wages”
            “We are a service economy which demands a different skill set out of their labor force. “

            So first you demand higher wages but then you admit the economy is demanding new skills that those in the labor force aren’t willing to learn in order to justify those higher wages? I hope you can appreciate the overt fallacy of the logic you are using here.

            “half the country doesn’t make enough to pay taxes.”

            So let me get this straight…

            Because half of the country either doesn’t want to work due to the fact that the incentive to work is outweighed by entitlements such as food stamps, disability and medicaid -OR- half of the country is just not skilled enough to do anything besides menial labor yet whichever is true it can somehow be blamed on the wealthy? I mean it sure sounds like that is the point you are driving at here.

          • Lmcyber

            Anything around 4% has always been considered full employment. That is standard. I didn’t make that up. It is standard with economists.

            If you have 60 million unfilled jobs due to lack of skillset in the labor force. Yes, I think that would be obvious.

            Third, the labor force in this country is making the equivalent similar to the 1960’s. Again, this comes from well know economists and it is a fact on its face.

            I am dealing strictly with economics. I have no desire to discuss politics, and the rest of your statement is pure politics.

      • Raymond Miller

        I happen to live in real ville, you obviously drink the socialist swill that the Bernie Sanders and similar nut cases put out. It’s your right to remain ill-informed and ignorant. This is America, get a job and earn your own way, learn a trade, there aren’t any free lunches. If you have been paying any attention to what is going on you would see that your saviors, the Demon-Craps are the ones stealing your and our future, having said that I know I’m p-ing on a flat rock.

  • Duke615

    From time to time, the Washington Post comes to its senses. It USED to be a great newspaper.
    Senators Harris and Merkley are punks. I am surprised at Senator Casey.

  • Louie Rey

    The fact that Democrats are lying about this is not the news here. The news here is the fact that the Washington Post, a charter member of the lamestream media, actually wrote and published this story which is anathema to their normal agenda. I guess every now and then they do decide to print the truth.

  • Joseph111

    Well, in all fairness, you can’t really blame the democrats for this – after all, they need to pass it before they find out what’s in it, right??
    .

  • SA Ander

    It only hurts the Demwits, because their loyal listeners will now get to keep and spend more of the money they earn.

  • Christian_Prophet

    The republicans are the big liars. The tax cut mainly benefits the large corporations and the wealthy. You suckers who make under $50,000 a year a being taken to the laundry by the conservatives who are in the pocket of the Koch brothers.

    • Bernie

      Prophet,
      A little too much of Rachael Maddow and Chuck Schumer, I see….

  • Mike E

    OK, my wife and I are retired. We had to pay at a 9% tax rate for 3 years. We paid about $400.00 last year and $500.00 prior to that. This tax rate will go up from 9% to 15%. That is a very sizable increase for people like my wife and I who are only on our Social Security Income, on our accounts that we paid into all of our working lives. My account that I paid into goes back to 1963 and my medicare goes to this date too. My wife’s payments go back to 1970 and this also includes her medicare. We should have a sizable amount in our accounts but now I hear that the Republican’s will reduce our Social Security Payments by 1/3, and they are making medicare a voucher system that we know will only cover a small amount of any medical expenses and that many hospitals and doctors will take themselves out of the Medicare programs because they know how the payments will be.

  • Bill

    How can the dems even attempt to state how many households will be affected by the tax cut. They don’t even know how many people live in their respective districts. They just want to keep taking our money and pissing it away.

  • David

    The answer to nearly all of the banter below is simple: FLAT TAX!

    You make a dollar, you pay a dime; you make $100,000, you pay $10,000. Period. No loopholes, no exceptions, no write-offs. Eliminate the IRS. National debt would be gone in a few years. Oh, and no more attorneys allowed to run for public office. Better yet, a moratorium on the practice of law all together for about five years, then see what happens!

  • Fed up!

    One simple question
    Has anyone ever receive a job and or a pay check from a poor person?

    Look Dumbo💩 And Rinos also, less money you can steal from everyone, that includes wealthy also, the more money can be spent in the economy.
    Politicians must have low IQ or their thieves.

  • Robert Green

    I’m tired of the lies being prepetrated by the Leftist media and those who want to promote the removal of OUR TRULY ELECTED PRESIDENT BY A MAJORITY OF AMERICAN CITIZENS! YES, CITIZENS AND NOT THOSE WHO WANT US TO THINK THIS IS COMING FROM US AS WELL! IT’S TIME TO TELL THE LEFT WHERE THEY CAN GO AND WHERE THEY CAN STICK THEIR FINGER TO STOP THE CRAP THEY ARE ATTEMPTING TO FOIST ON US!!
    THOSE WHOSE INTENT IS TO TAKE AMERICAN DOWN IN ORDER TO BEGIN THE CREATION OF A ONE WORLD GOVERNMENT CAN KISS MY YOU KNOW WHAT!! AND THEY SHOULD DO THE SAME FOR ALL OF YOU ALSO OPPOSING THEIR EFFORTS.
    THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED ON THE BASIS OF IT BEING A FREE NATION AND NOT BEHOLDING TO ANY OTHER COUNTRY! IT’S TIME THE REAL AMERICANS STAND UP AND BE HEARD AND SEEN FOR AMERICA. WE ARE A REPUBLIC FOR WHICH WE STAND; NOT A DEMOCRACY! THIS COUNTRY IS OURS AS A PEOPLE AND WE NEED TO STAND UP FOR IT!
    iTS TIME TO PUT IT BACK IN PLACE AS IT WAS INTENDED. NO CORPORATION WILL EVER REPLACE OUR NATION AS IT WAS INTENDED TO BE. AND IT’S TIME TO SAY SO OUT LOUD!

  • TCinBHM

    The Dems claim a lot of things.
    They need to be more worried about who runs the DNC.
    They got bigger problems than Trump.

  • John

    WOW a moment of clarity in the WAPOST, next you’ll tell me a Dem official would admit HRC stole the Dem primary. I’m waiting for CNN to come out with a Gilda Radner like statement “You know that whole Russia-Trump thing, NEVER MIND”

  • A_Nobody

    Demobratic party is the party of pathological liars but their lemmings stupidly follow them blindly.

  • Kathryn Jordan

    This is pretty bad when you have someone in the left wing calling out certain Democrats for their lies on the tax cuts. What I wonder is how this new tax law will affect people who are disabled and are on Social Security Disability.

  • kathryn

    Before anybody jump on the libertards and demotards band wagon on Trump tax reform. Please read and do your numbers and read your effective rate and tax brackets after your deductions. You will find most middle america will be getting a tax break.. Libertards will stating it will end in ten years. So what, ten years is a long time.. When will libertards and Demo tards will give us a tax break. They don’t
    In regards to not having state and local tax write off, this only effects upper middle or wealthy people who have a lot of properties which most middle class family don’t have. In regards to mortgage interest credit, it is reduced to 500k vs 1million. Most middle class family don’t even have more than 20 k of mortgage interest to write off. The wealthy liberals in California, New jersey and New York are screaming about not having the state and local tax write offs because these states have the highest local and state taxes…and these folks have multi million dollar properties which is more than the standard deduction. This why these folks want to write off local state taxes vs standard because it more. Trump increased the income caps for lower tax brackets and he increased the standard deduction to 12k vs 6200 and he increased the EIC credit which is better than a deductible because credit matches dollar to dollar while standard deductible only lowers you taxable income by some percentage.

  • kathryn

    i am thrilled to state my 50k after my deduction will be taxed at 15 percent rather 25 percent
    Thank You Trump